| Dr Motoyama is a scientist as well as a yogi, | | | | 20 years), and fortunately we have been able to |
| philosopher and priest. He is a man of many varied | | | | investigate many psychics, martial arts masters and |
| interests and talents specializing in oriental medicine, | | | | yogis as well as students of our own disciplines, yoga |
| computing and electrical engineering who is also a | | | | exercises and meditation, and so-on. We have been |
| parapsychologist, spiritual healer and seer. He is head | | | | able to detect the chakras, and also I have some |
| of the Institute for Life Physics, Tokyo, and the | | | | ability to see the chakras and whether they are |
| California Institute for Human Science, California. He is | | | | awakened in a person or not. So firstly I would |
| concerned with elucidating the nature of religious | | | | clearly see with my ESP ability [psychic ability] which |
| experience and the existence of 'subtle energies' | | | | chakra is awakened. |
| using scientific methods. To aid in this he has built | | | | If the chakra is awakened we can see the very |
| two machines: one to measure the 'ki' energy in the | | | | bright colours of the aura and also feel much energy |
| meridians (the AMI machine) and another to measure | | | | from this awakened chakra. Then we measured |
| the energy of the chakras or energy centres of the | | | | subjects with the AMI machine and have been able |
| body (The Chakra instrument). The AMI instrument is | | | | to determine if particular chakras are awakened, for |
| in use in some American and many Japanese medical | | | | example those who have the manipura chakra |
| institutions as a diagnostic tool and for research into | | | | awakened have highly energized spleen, liver, |
| health and disease and also the paranormal. In this | | | | stomach meridians. After analysing much data |
| interview with Share International he talks about | | | | obtained from many kinds of psychics or 'normal' |
| some of his scientific ideas and thoughts for the | | | | people, I found, on the basis of this data and on the |
| future development of this area of research and | | | | basis of my own super-natural understanding of such |
| diagnosis. | | | | people, that we could connect the specific meridians |
| Share International: Dr Motoyama, could you tell us | | | | with each chakra and link this with traditional theories |
| how you got the idea for building the AMI machine | | | | about the chakras. For example, a person with an |
| and what are the actual physical principles on which it | | | | awakened manipura chakra can control the emotions, |
| is based? | | | | and also the functioning of the digestive system. We |
| Dr Hiroshi Motoyama: Yes. I had many experiences, | | | | learnt much about each meridian and chakra from |
| beginning 40 to 45 years ago, of the flow of vital | | | | working with yogis and could link this with our AMI |
| energies during my yoga exercises and I clearly felt, | | | | data. |
| around the meridians [energy channels], some vital | | | | SI: I know you have done some work on telepathy |
| energy like water and heat going around my body. | | | | between individuals and have found how different |
| Particularly I felt Kundalini Shakti or power was very | | | | kinds of telepathy affect the different chakras. Could |
| strong around the spine. At about this time I | | | | you say something about that? |
| suffered a lot from disease and instability and for this | | | | HM: Telepathy usually affects, in different ways, the |
| reason I often couldn't get up, so I decided to | | | | different chakras. Mostly, telepathy in which |
| practise Yoga. After six months to a year I was so | | | | companions are connected or related by their |
| much better that I began to experience for myself | | | | emotions or by the imagination is due to the |
| the ki or prana energy in my body. | | | | manipura centre (solar plexus) receiving that |
| Later when I was a young lecturer in science at | | | | telepathy. The person who has awakened the |
| Tokyo University, my students did not believe me | | | | manipura is very sensitive, can be affected by other |
| when I told them of my experiences, using logical | | | | people very easily and finds it easy to receive |
| arguments only. I thought that their minds were too | | | | information from 'outside'. They can easily be |
| heavily influenced by science and so I wanted to | | | | influenced by the power of the other person and |
| verify such vital or subtle energies flowing in the | | | | information can easily come in. However if a person |
| body by scientific methods or research.The first time | | | | has awakened the ajna chakra [the energy centre |
| I measured this type of body function was with the | | | | between the eyebrows] the telepathy is very |
| EEG Electroencephalogram or ECG Electrocardiogram | | | | different. Then it is a very pure, intellectual telepathy |
| methods used in traditional Western medicine, but it | | | | and very clear, whereas the telepathy given through |
| is very difficult to detect such energy, and Western | | | | the manipura chakra is very much connected with |
| medicine can 'catch' only the nervous or muscle | | | | the emotions and with a person's own imagination. |
| tension in the form of electricity, electrical potential or | | | | Sometimes it can be mixed with unconscious |
| active potential in the nerves. | | | | thoughts. If either the manipura or the ajna centre is |
| One day, about 25 years ago, I was invited by a | | | | awakened, it is possible to both receive telepathy or |
| visiting professor to his university in India where we | | | | send telepathic transmission at will to others. |
| examined, using EEG and so-on, Yogis and T'ai Chi | | | | However in the case where the svadisthana chakra |
| Chuan masters. I think all the hard work we did gave | | | | [the sacral centre] is awakened, all such people have |
| me a stomach ulcer, partly because during the | | | | some telepathic ability and can receive some |
| spiritual consultations I did with many people I used | | | | information from others, but the ability is only |
| only the Manipura (solar plexus or Hara) chakra, which | | | | spontaneous; they cannot control it at will and cannot |
| connects to the stomach meridian.After my stay in | | | | send telepathic thoughts to others. So if people say |
| India I thought perhaps my investigations of such an | | | | they sometimes have intuition or telepathy but they |
| idea of prana or ki energy were wrong, as we | | | | cannot control it at will, that means their telepathy |
| cannot measure or detect these energies with | | | | mostly belongs to the svadisthana chakra, and is |
| traditional medical instruments. So I decided to | | | | very raw. |
| develop a new machine. I had studied electronic | | | | SI: Could you explain a little bit about what you mean |
| engineering while at the naval academy and at | | | | by subjective and objective science? |
| university, so now I was able to build a circuit to | | | | HM: Objective science means we can understand or |
| make a new machine to find a way of detecting the | | | | observe something from a common base with other |
| 'body fluid function'. That is the history of the AMI, | | | | people. Sometimes also objective means the science |
| which stands for Apparatus for measuring the | | | | that is based on the sense perceptions. For example, |
| functioning of the Meridians and their corresponding | | | | I can see this cup: you can see it also, and this |
| Internal organs. | | | | means we can say it is objective. But the subjective |
| SI: Have you built any other machines apart from the | | | | is always there. For example we both see this cup |
| AMI? | | | | but perhaps you perceive it differently from me |
| HM: Yes. My other machine is the chakra machine | | | | according to your subjective feeling and |
| which was developed two-to-three years after | | | | understanding which is different from mine. We can |
| completing the AMI machine. By directing energy | | | | say the same thing about intuition or telepathy. |
| from the subtle energy centre of the chakra the | | | | Sometimes people say that intuition is very |
| surrounding electromagnetic environment can perhaps | | | | subjective, but I don't think so. If you have the same |
| be changed. Also the lower body has a kind of static | | | | ability as I have, you can, for example, see the same |
| potential which disappears when energy is discharged | | | | kind of spiritual entity as I do, so sometimes during |
| from the body. So, in a completely dark room, | | | | meditation with my disciples and students we receive |
| insulated from physical energies from outside, a | | | | the same kind of telepathic information. That means |
| person with psychic ability can direct energy via their | | | | some activity common to all, doesn't it? So there are |
| awakened chakra and produce light and we can | | | | many meanings of objective and subjective. |
| detect this light and its direction. The instrument to | | | | SI: My understanding of quantum physics is that the |
| detect this light and the changes in the | | | | observer can actually affect what is observed, that |
| electromagnetic field is called the chakra machine. This | | | | the two are linked. Doesn't this form a link between |
| machine's first aim was to register light or | | | | Western science and Eastern philosophies or religions? |
| psychokinetic power and to see if it could influence | | | | |
| an electrical atmosphere, or whether a person can | | | | HM: The quantum, for instance, as in the Heisenberg |
| produce light or not. | | | | uncertainty principle, depends only on the instrument |
| SI: Can you yourself detect or see whether an illness | | | | we use to observe things. For instance if we use a |
| has a karmic cause, is incurable, or whether it can be | | | | photon to observe elementary particles like electrons |
| cured? | | | | or neutrons, according to the type of measurement |
| HM: That depends on one's understanding of the | | | | used we can measure the position of the particle but |
| human being. I understand the human being to consist | | | | we don't know it's velocity. But if we observe the |
| of three dimensions: a body, mind and spirit and each | | | | particle in a different way then we can know its |
| of them has individuality. If the problem or cause | | | | velocity but not its position. So from this we can |
| comes from the spiritual dimension it is generally | | | | understand the uncertainty principle, but we still |
| caused by previous karma and cannot usually be | | | | separate the object and the subject. |
| cured by Western medicine. Disease at the mental | | | | They say if we look in a different way we can see a |
| level is caused by things that happen in a person's | | | | different thing even though it is the same thing. In |
| present life, producing unstable states of mind, and | | | | the case of psychokinetic energy, we send out some |
| this can be cured by hypnosis or psychotherapy or | | | | energy and an object can be created or changed. In |
| psychological approaches. In that case the person | | | | quantum physics they are still separated, things are |
| only needs to understand the reason, the causes | | | | not affected by the mind. That's completely |
| that create the problem in the mind. On the physical | | | | different, is it not? But now in order to bridge this |
| level, if the body has been affected by a germ, one | | | | kind of scientific view we are proceeding more and |
| only needs medication and often in a short time the | | | | more in the subtle area, in the subtle dimension, and |
| person will be cured. | | | | then we can soon reach the subtle energy system |
| A karmic disease, or constitutional handicap caused | | | | like the ki. Physicists now understand the Big Bang |
| by karma, is very difficult to cure, but if we always | | | | but we cannot explain, or we cannot find out, the |
| pray to God to help such people, then in many cases | | | | initial state [ground state] of the Big Bang, where |
| they can be cured within five or 10 years. The key | | | | there is no causation, time is at zero or almost at |
| point is that they should accept the previous life that | | | | zero. Why is the energy not divided into four? |
| relates to their disease. This is a first step in | | | | Because in science we know only particular forms of |
| controlling the emotions and one can then observe | | | | energy like electricity or gravity or something like |
| oneself from the outside. That is the starting point. | | | | that. We can measure these with our machines so |
| They pray to God and gradually they can control | | | | we cannot measure the energy before this |
| their emotions and the very egocentric persistence | | | | discrimination but we are now getting there. As to ki |
| (attitude) of the person gradually disappears. They | | | | energy, if we have someone whose chakras are |
| can then be intact and in a balanced state with other | | | | awakened, then with a specially designed probe we |
| people; and they will be cured. | | | | have been able to measure points on the subject's |
| SI: There is a dichotomy between orthodox medicine | | | | body with a high potential which I believe |
| and the new type of healing arts based on the | | | | corresponds to the chakras and their level of activity. |
| meridians and chakras. Do you think your work has | | | | My hypothesis is that the nuclei or electrons at this |
| helped to bridge this gap, or is doing so? | | | | part of the body give off much energy and then the |
| HM: Yes, I think it has, because medicine is mostly | | | | energy changes and discharges and comes out as |
| concerned with mass, the material aspect. Matter is a | | | | the energy of the photon. To verify this hypothesis, |
| kind of accumulation of energy in a fixed order. | | | | we measure photons with a photon counter. If the |
| Chaos is energy but random, not in order. But when | | | | chakra is awakened and the potential is high then we |
| the energy is fixed, in order, in a certain frequency, | | | | are able to detect many photons discharged from |
| etc, it becomes quantum, and this quantum is the | | | | the body from the point corresponding to the |
| origin of mass. So this quantum forms an electron or | | | | awakened chakra. We can verify the existence of |
| a proton or nucleus and thence an atom. The atoms | | | | the chakras and psi [psychic] energy given |
| combine and they make molecules and the molecules | | | | concentration of the mind and an awakened chakra, |
| combine to make DNA and protein and then us: | | | | because more photons discharge. If we concentrate |
| matter-with-consciousness. So any kind of mass is | | | | the mind and there is not an awakened chakra then |
| created by energy. This energy is now divided into | | | | nothing happens. After three seconds or 10 seconds |
| four kinds: the weak nuclear, strong nuclear, the | | | | or 20 seconds, maybe only one photon is detected. |
| electromagnetic and gravitational. Before it was | | | | That is usual but the awakened chakra gives a very |
| divided into these four, maybe the energy was one | | | | unusual amount of photon discharge. Because we |
| and this energy, I think, is the ki energy. (Both ki | | | | have concentrated at the point, this near-mental |
| energy and physical energy are important in healing | | | | concentration of power, psychic power, gives the |
| and this has been the focus of my work.) | | | | energy to the photon. That is how we can find this |
| SI: Ah, this is the ki, you think? | | | | mechanism of the interaction between the mind and |
| HM: Yes, but ki energy is still in the physical dimension | | | | the body. That is a new science, or not a new |
| even if it is the 'beginning of the physical dimension'. | | | | science perhaps but a new medicine which is closer |
| So it will be restricted by space and time, for | | | | to other religions or philosophies. So now we are just |
| example the T'ai Chi Chuan master we studied can | | | | approaching this door, to open it. |
| only project his ki energy within a fixed distance. This | | | | SI: Would you say then that science is approaching a |
| ki energy is a mediator between the mental or | | | | new paradigm, a new methodology? |
| psychic and the physical dimension. | | | | HM: Yes, although many people talk about the new |
| So we are proceeding now from Western medicine, | | | | paradigm, but they haven't got it, they are just |
| which deals with mass in the chemical form only to | | | | speculating but actual research, like ours, embodies |
| the medicine of energy. Then, beyond that, maybe | | | | this new paradigm. So I think this is completely |
| we will reach the psychic and spiritual level. | | | | different and much more meaningful than just 'New |
| SI: Your work, I would say, verifies the existence of | | | | Age' thought. |
| the chakras and meridians. Do you have any scientific | | | | SI: Yes, perhaps what is needed to bring this new |
| theory as to why the chakras and meridians are of | | | | paradigm to the fore is a new type of clairvoyant |
| their particular form or why they follow their | | | | scientist? |
| particular paths? | | | | HM: Yes. "The new medical science will be |
| HM: Before we make a theory we must find out the | | | | outstandingly built upon the science of the centres, |
| facts. So at my Research Institute we measured | | | | and upon their knowledge all diagnosis and possible |
| many subjects, maybe about 100,000 so far (over | | | | cure will be based." Esoteric Healing, by Alice A. Bailey |